FBI Old School. Since we can’t have zero recoil in a defensive cartridge, we climb the “power ladder” until hitting the recoil wall – the point where recoil causes accuracy and speed to suffer. I can flinch even when I’m shooting my .22 rifles, and I know they don’t kick! The first side of this debate says you cannot carry magnum ammunition in a revolver. .38 Special Performance Results.38 Special: Bullet Weight (gr.) I may raise the load 1/2 grain, to see if they will be “more equal”. For a mid-size handgun such as the Springfield XD this is an acceptable caliber. Thank you Justin and I really appreciate your page. View Latest Price →. I am a civilian and, so far, have not been willing to put up with the bulk and weight of a "Real" gun. You are left with a flat nose bullet, but 0.363 inch bullets are hard to find these days. I ran the test once each, with four different loads, then ran them all again with a different gun. This round fires with 1,400 FPS muzzle velocity and 783 ft-lbs. Before answering this question satisfactorily, we have to acknowledge a couple of things. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. The .38 Special +P 158gr LSWCHP was created by Federal with concealed-carry self-defense users in mind. Shooting the gun with lightweight bullets proves to be pleasant. A non-expanding bullet at 970 to 1000 fps in most handguns, the Honey Badger relies upon a cutting mechanism for wound potential. That book is finally here. Author Paul Kirchner was working with Cirillo on this biography at the time of Jim's untimely death in 2007. I’m not saying it can’t be done, only that it usually takes a dedicated effort to honestly control a small-frame gun loaded with .357 ammo. I would strongly recommend the heavier bullet weights. Second; I have a severe flinch! Get a heavier pistol, and enjoy shooting it. Buffalo Bore: Outdoorsman 180 Grain Flat Nose. target full wadcutters to a myriad of standard pressure and +P loads. Choosing a bullet The Hornady HBWC was utilized three different ways — loaded as normal with the hollow base over the powder charge, upside down with the hollow base serving as a large-cavity HP and also loaded over black powder for use in antique. Made for 9mm, I load it … The only reason I believe a person should carry .357 is if plan to shoot through window or shoot something larger than a person. I’m simply able to do better work with .38+P in the small frame guns I carry, so that’s what I use for defense. The Black Hills Ammunition 140-grain TAC loading using the Barnes all copper hollowpoint seems to be the best combination of low recoil and effect among what is usually a hard kicking set of loads for the .40 S&W. Secondly, the guns that fire these cartridges come in a wide array of shapes, sizes, and weights. Rob, Check out Hornady's 125 grain XTP factory 38 special load. Wound ballistics are good without going to the harder kicker +P which may also produce more wear on the handgun. Back when the idea of gelatin testing was so new even the FBI hadn't adopted it, there was a .38 Spl. My electronic hearing muffs were turned up to 10. In medium frame revolvers with 4" or longer barrels one of the recommended +P loads is probably the best choice. Federal Law Enforcement 38 Special +P 158gr. While they are difficult to master, they are exceedingly easy to operate. In the .357 Magnum we have the Hornady Critical Defense 125-grain load at 1380 fps from the four-inch barrel revolver. In Choosing Handgun Ammo: The Facts that Matter Most for Self-Defense, Patrick Sweeney brings a clear voice of reason to the discussion, giving you the data and expert insight you need to choose the right ammo for your needs. Larger grips also generally help in recoil management by allowing your hands to achieve more surface area and a firmer grasp on the gun. I have had great success with Federal Premium low recoil 130 grain Hydra Shok JHP. I used 125gr. Smith & Wesson M&P Bodyguard 38 Crimson Trace Recently made part of the M&P line of firearms, the M&P Bodyguard 38 CT is a small-framed .38 Special +P revolver that features a five-shot capacity. Ammo editor Richard Mann gives some guidance on great choices. Newhall Shooting - A Tactical Analysis is the definitive story of the most deadly law enforcement shooting of the modern era. I agree with everything Mike said here. and .38 Spl. I would use a bullet weight of 158 Grains in a .38 Special +P cartridge. That leaves a whole 140 ft lbs to do damage with. As an example the full power .357 SIG Hornady 147-grain XTP breaks 1200 fps- ideal for service use. At over 900 fps this load offers good expansion. I agree that in a life and death struggle, the discomfort imparted through recoil is not the biggest concern. Regarding your choice, I would not purchase that gun prior to shooting one (or something like it) first. The Hornady Critical Defense 185-grain load, the Hornady 185-grain XTP or the Black Hills Ammunition 185-grain JHP are all good choices with good wound ballistics. Current bullet weights vary from 110 to 158 Grains. But that back blast is hard to ignore. Rosie is heavy enough that you should be able to shoot these without too much drama. I honestly think they would give you a better value for your money. I was pretty accurate with it but i didn’t feel it had enough stopping power. RG Model 38S 38 Special Rohm GMBH Sontheim BRZ Caliber - 38 Barrel length – 4" Weight - 34 ounces RG or Rohm GMBH Sontheim is not really known for the quality of their guns but they did make a few models that were found to be reliable and even fun. That gun is quite different from my regular 2″ snubby, with its thin Boot Grips. Snub nosed revolvers are still wildly popular for concealed carry and for good reason. Much more important than caliber are: 1. reliability, 2. the ability to get the gun into action quickly, and 3. the ability to place shots (sometimes multiple shots) quickly and accurately. I carry one everyday, loaded with Remington 125 grain Golden Sabres. The barriers will still cause it to lose energy, and these rounds tend to stop after fewer barriers, unlike lead bullets. i read somewhere that corbon makes a … While they are difficult to master, they are exceedingly easy to operate. 38 Special as a caliber is the derivative of several different kinds of 38 Special, which all eventually settled into the mainstream SAAMI spec-cartridge that we use today, more or less. This long-awaited sequel to Handgun Stopping Power gives the very latest results of hundreds of actual shootings involving every major handgun caliber, including the hot new .40 S&W. Also covers exotic ammo street results, the controversial ... The heavy barrel really dampens recoil. Your right, i am not familiar with a .357. Våbenhistorie, infanterivåbensystemer, våbenteknologi, våbenudvikling. Håndvåben, morterer, panserværnsvåben, håndgranater, ammunition og personlig beskyttelsesudrustning. load we all used. Best snub nose revolver for the money. By ammo, it's not so much brand, but bullet type and weight and the ammo must be .357, not .38 Special. Hornady offers two bullet weights in the .38 Special caliber, with a 90 grain, standard pressure, Critical Defense Lite load for recoil-sensitive shooters, and a 110 grain, standard pressure Critical Defense load for those wanting a heavier bullet. It’s a complicated cocktail and it’s up to you to mix your own. I think that M&P 340 CT weighs about half as much as the steel-frame 640, and that makes a huge difference when it’s time to burn powder. While light weight sometimes means under penetration, this isn’t the case with the Critical Defense bullet. What is the best ammo for a 38 snub nose? Not surprisingly, Winchester Ranger Bonded ammunition is one of the preferred types of ammunition for law enforcement agencies and are an excellent choice for. 38 Special self-defense ammo. With an all-steel gun there was very little difference with the .38 and .38 +P loads. They can be rather uncomfortable and difficult to control for many people, so doing some homework first may save you from a purchase you will regret. I am actually downloading my 357 to above + p + 38 specials. .38 Special vs .357 Magnum Since more of the bullet’s mass is outside the cartridge, there is more room for powder in the cartridge. 9mm Luger I am looking at the 90 grain Hornady Critical Defense Lite in 38 … Back in the 80s and early 90s, Remington loaded a reduced recoil, medium-velocity load in .357 that was designed for guns like this, but it’s no longer in the catalog since the release of the Golden Saber. My ancient IPSC loads were tried next, alternating the rounds, and the recoil wasn’t much different, either. I’m looking for a low recoil round with very good stopping power. 162810) S&W offers a machine-engraved version of the 442 for just over $900 MSRP, but it lacks the barrel rib of our test gun. 38 cases, with 3. You already know why, right? I would avoid high velocity 125-gr loads in K frames. I consider a snub nose .38 Special to be the absolute minimum. Sold it and bought a 12 gauge shot gun for home defense. is so simple. The 605 Poly has a unique appearance, but aside from that, the important features of the gun can be found in the other makes. I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I stoked my first J-Frame (a 3″ Model 60) with hot-rod .357 ammo because…well, because I was gifted with the naivete of youth. Shooting the snub nose 38 seems like it is the first problem. The .357 SIG is a powerful cartridge. One thing though, it is picky with ammo. You pointed out the differences in ammo too, and those are not inconsequential. Some loads use the same projectile but a smaller powder charge. In 1985, it became the sidearm of choice for the United States Armed Forces, and the military doesn’t choose a handgun unless it’s reliable and effective.. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best 38+P bullet weight for snub nose revolver. And given the seemingly endless number of … It also means it features on our list of the best 38 revolvers too. Thanks to the high-penetration XTP bullet, these cartridges deliver strong terminal performance. Just a few years ago the best ammunition available was still a compromise in terms of bullet type, but technology has marched on. The Problem With Short Barrel .38 Specials. I tend to come down on this side…mostly. Only want to use it for self defense. The recoil of the .357 magnum out of a snub is quite excessive. YOUR GO-TO GUIDE FOR GUNS, AMMO & GEAR Get the complete low-down on what's new in the shooting industry with Guns Illustrated 2011. If you want to post a thoughtful comment, I welcome it even if it disagrees with me. Like all cartridges, there are a lot of 38 Special ammo options out there and they come from many different manufacturers. It produces nearly 300 ft lbs and that bullet really expands at that speed, yet I can get repeat hits on the chest in .20 second or less, at 5 yds or so. The .38 Special rounds, particularly when fired from short-barreled pistols, tend to be more effective compared to other revolvers like the .22 caliber or .357 caliber. I think you did a great job of covering this issue, buddy. Just wondering. If you are familiar with the handling of your cowboy action revolver there is no reason you cannot count on it for home defense. Among my favorite calibers is the .45 Colt. Since you have the Lee 158gr SWC, I would stick with it, until you get the "itch" for another old. With all things being equal, a heavier bullet means heavier recoil. Ken, I totally agree with carrying .38s. If your going to carry that load go with Buffalo Bore or Underwood. You can … Fact is the .38 special is a perfectly good round for self defense in a revolver without trying to turn it into a .357 magnum. The massive movement of the little gun also made it hard to keep the gun on target. Both 38s shot POA/POI. I either saw this on tv or read about this incident. Regardless of caliber, many people continue doing what they were doing when they got shot. $1500-$1600. This inexpensive .38 revolver from Rock Island Armory might not be pretty but it is definitely one of the best bargains on a small, concealable firearm. Thanks for commenting! All Rights Reserved. "In The Gravest Extreme tells it like it is, and prepares you to protect you and yours against criminal violence without being crucified for it in court. One draw of a 38 snub is a choice of bullet weights and power levels not seen in most other cartidges. Glad to have you here, and we’re happy you enjoyed the article. Can contain up to 6 rounds. If you look at videos of a lot of police shootings you may be surprised at how people react to being shot with handguns. Women & Guns is the World's First Firearms Publication dedicated to women. Until the laws of physics are changed this is a reality. Thanks Lars. 158 is almost ideal. and under I have used a .38 Special revolver. My strongest recommendation at this point would be to go to a facility where you can rent a bunch of different guns and find the combination that works best for you, which may or may not be a .357 revolver. Please enter your username or email address to reset your password. In theory, the fixed/integral sights on the snub would be set based on assumptions of shooting that sort of bullet. Cabela’s Price: $629.99; Caliber: 9mm; Capacity: 15+1; The Beretta M9 is an excellent all-purpose handgun. I load something that would be considered a .357 Medium rather than Magnum for my M&P 360 snubbie. Sometimes a buyer might prefer the smaller/lighter .38 Special gun if all he plans on doing is shooting .38s. Because it was introduced in the late 19 th century as a black powder cartridge and has not changed dimensionally in that time, today’s .38 Special is a mild recoiling, low-pressure round that enjoys a very healthy following. Although some of the weapons discussed in this book are no longer available, a surprising amount of the information is still as tactically sound and relevant today as it was 40 years ago when used by a wide variety of U.S. federal and local ... So expect to spend $100 finding out what hollow points work best in it. Because it was introduced in the late 19 th century as a black powder cartridge and has not changed dimensionally in that time, today’s .38 Special is a mild recoiling, low-pressure round that enjoys a very healthy following. A self-loading handgun requires a certain amount of recoil force. I sure hope you’re wrong! A high velocity service load often uses a bonded core bullet to achieve penetration. Ruger LCRX .38 +P. The recoil from a .45 is different than it is from a .357 Magnum. Because they are revolvers then the rate of fire can be reduced to some degree. What is the best 38+P bullet weight for a short barrel revolver? No way you're going to get anywhere near 1350 fps out of any 357 magnum in a snub nose. +P short barrel loads with the 357 rounds, and found the recoil to be not a lot different. The heavier bullet has the potential to be more potent at causing damage to a target. The .38 Special is one of the best revolver cartridges ever made. Winchester 130-Grain PDX1 Defender +P. Learned a lot about ammo from your article. Of ammunition that can be readily found, my choice would be Remington 158-grain LSWCHP +P. Velocities look reasonable to me but it is not rated +P. One new winner* is announced every week! A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. They are very compact and lightweight and they are reliable and safe. Welcome aboard, .45! Top Short-Barrel .38 Special Ammo for Personal Protection. That said, I love my 357 Magnum revolver! Again, hope you like your new wheelgun! A comprehensive guide to all aspects of the modern AR15 rifle. I also like the Underwood .38 Special 150 gr wadcutter. Personally, I would probably pick Speer Short Barrel Gold Dot 125 grain or Winchester 110 grain JHP. These cartridges are on the higher end of the recoil spectrum. It is some combination of the stuff inside the case, the gun the case is shoved into, and the person firing it. I use these as range ammo in my 3 revolvers; S & W 686-6 357 mag, S & W Airweight 38 snub nose and my Ruger LCR 38 snub nose.They work and that's all I … A used Ruger or S&W would save you some money and put you very close to the same range as a new Taurus, and would be a safer purchase in my experience. If the .38 Special was a low-velocity round compared to the 9mm, this would be a problem. Today, the maximum standard pressure for a load is 17,000 PSI. From 380 power up to light 357 – if you can stand it. Once you have made the all-important decision to get a concealed-carry weapon permit, you face a dilemma - how to determine the perfect carry piece from the dizzying array of choices available in modern handguns. The .38 Special +P rounds tend to have a slightly better effect than the initial .38 Special rounds. 158 is almost ideal. Handguns are the weapon of opportunity. Revolvers in general may not be nearly as popular as they once were, but the small, lightweight .38 Special snub nose is still one of the best selling concealable handguns on the market. 'short-barrel' Gold Dot. These loads offer less recoil in a steel frame .44 Special revolver than most .38 Special +P loads in the .38 revolver by comparison. The man getting out of his car just happen to have his .380 in his hand. Thank you for the informative article, just purchased a S&W 60 3″, found the article quite useful, going to pick up a few boxes of the Golden Saber , sounds like it may fit my needs as a home defense round, for the wife. I find that most of the small .357s are better served with .38 Special ammunition than they are with .357 Magnums. I don’t rule out the possibility that this is the type of thing one could ignore in a gunfight – it may be possible. Th is is the reality of self defense, and these topics are not entered into lightly. Intended for mature and open minded students only. This is the long awaited companion volume to the underground bestseller Hardcore Self Defense. Specifically, it can hit targets accurately from 25 to 50 yards. 9mm starts to pull away from .38 Special when you look at the ballistics. I’ve owned many many pocket guns. But, I am deeply concerned about ability to deliver rapid, accurate fire beyond that first round. I actually even prefer Jacketed Soft Points for Snub Nose .38's and J-Frame .357's (which I mainly keep loaded with .38 Special anyway - and I keep my 1911's loaded with 230-gr Ball, but I do like Winchester's 230-gr. Being able to place shots with precision is my first and foremost criteria in a carry gun/load combo. Velocity is the next factor to consider. For those that carry revolvers, the .38 Special is the most popular defensive round - but what ammunition is best? I used these in both a SP 101 and LCR. Both sides seem to be a bit dogmatic in their position, and I’ve been confronted with this a couple of times recently. Others achieve high velocity by using a lighter bullet that generates lower felt recoil. A clogged JHP is effectively a round nose bullet, and won't create any expanded wound channel like a flatpoint bullet. I believe I’m going to have to go with the heavier bullets and move them a little slower in order to get it more controllable recoil, less muzzle blast, and the proper penetration. The 1000 rounds came packaged securely, was reasonably priced and arrived on time. During my first range session I shot Winchester 38s (FMJ), Remington 38+P (JHP) and the Gold Dot short barrel. You allude to the sound and blast and to be honest I think this is a huge concern. I LIKE it! Most folks are thinking airlights like the 340 when talking about uncontrollable. Against lightly clad threats they will deliver superior wound ballistics. +P loads are not needed in the .45 ACP. I am interested in trying out a lower grain to see how she sucks them up. If you want to throw out a thoughtless one-liner with no justification, go post on literally any other gun blog on the internet. Be certain of your needs and consider the likely threat. I concede that you might even be able to ignore it. Historically speaking, the 110s were prone to underpenetration, and you needed to use 125s for best results. .45 Colt The “snub-nose .38” revolver, dating back to the Colt Detective Special of 1926, is a standard prop in noir movies. In Quantitative Ammunition Selection, Charles Schwartz presents an accessible mathematical model that allows armed professionals and lawfully-armed citizens to evaluate the terminal ballistic performance of self-defense ammunition using ... But surprisingly, the opposite happened. The main problem was that the gun physically moved in my hands. Craig, Whether or not that velocity is desirable or not is another conversation (I’d usually say “no) but .357 from a 2” barrel is not just a loud .38 Special. Cardini Leather USA - IWB Ultra Soft Leather Holster - Concealed Carry with Clip - for S&W J Frame, S&W Models 442, 642, for Airweight 637, 638, 640 - and Other Snub Nose Revolvers in … 357 Magnum Short Barrel ammo on sale, so I bought two boxes, “Just to see”. I would avoid the .38 snub nose revolvers due to their small grips and poor sight's. My wife carries a Ruger LCR in 38 plus p, but even shooting my light 38 wad cutters in it makes even my hands hurt. If I had a M&P 340 CT, I’d probably load it with 148 grain wadcutters or some of my reserve stash of the discontinued, standard pressure, 125 grain Federal Nyclad. LSWCHP +p's. Good article and I agree that the decision will be very specific to the capabilities of the user. ©2016 to 2019 RevolverGuy.com, All Rights Reserved, ©2019 RevolverGuy.com, All Rights Reserved, Identifying & Clearing The Revolver Squib Load, Blast from the Past: Popular Police Speedloaders of the 1970s, Reconsidering the Revolver Tactical Reload, .357 or .38 Special In A Small Revolver – The Armed Christian, https://revolverguy.com/filing-revolvers-front-sight/, The Biggest Little Roundgun: The 3-Inch Kimber K6s - GAT Daily (Guns Ammo Tactical). The third is to increase bullet weight. The old lead .38, the great perforator. If it was just cost, I would urge you to reconsider some other options. I have two maladies that are terribly “wrong” for someone who loves guns and shooting: I have a Genetic sensitivity to loud, sharp noises. check bullet at .38 Special velocity, this SWC will cut a clean hole. I presume that Rosie is being carried for defense against two-legged predators, and if I’m right, I wouldn’t be real enthusiastic about recommending the 85 grain bullets.
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